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TOPIC: 2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES

2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #25

bpsymington wrote:
...and that would address the concerns of wizards worried about the possibility of running out of spells...

I'm not sure it does. No other class hits a wall at which they become useless.

Others have the option to use consumables to be more effective. Only wizards must resort to consumables to keep playing at all, or poke it with a stick and hope for a crit.

Not saying this is a bad idea, just that it doesn't address that core issue. To do that, there need to be cantrips. Even if they had the "cast as a scroll" limitation, at least wizards could do something when the tick boxes are all checked.
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Last Edit: 4 years 1 month ago by Brad Mortensen.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #26

  • kurtreznor
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What about dual-weild-wand wizard: may use two wands with a single standard action.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #27

  • Picc
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What if we gave wizards a "ritual casting" power that let them recast a spent lvX spell as a scroll once per round/every other round/something like that.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #28

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kurtreznor wrote:
What about dual-weild-wand wizard: may use two wands with a single standard action.

I love this as an UR, James dark magic dual wand holsterstm pat pending etc
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #29

  • balthasar
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My angry old man wizard has +10 to hit and +18 damage in melee. Just not much in the way of damage boosting for spells, though.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #30

Here's an analogy. Like all such things, it's flawed:

I fascetiously propose we add a new thing called "endurance."

You start with 25 endurance. (Level 5s get 30). Every physical attack cost one endurance, and there's no way to regain it. Once you're out, you are so exhausted that your hit/damage bonuses are reduced to 0/0, and you can no longer hear the bard song, so you can still hit but only on a 20 for base weapon damage. However, you may muster the energy to attack as normal for one round by sacrificing a token. Commons give you +1/+1, greens give you half your bonuses, and reds give you full.

Would that change the way you play a Fighter? Sure it would. You'd have to play it like a wizard.

I think that's the issue that some wizards are trying to address.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #31

  • Kirk Bauer
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I may be missing something but can't a Wizard pretty much always do Melee or Ranged if their spells are out? Yes I know they would only be minimally effective but it is something.

Last year at WYC there was an enemy that required sacred damage to be hurt by your attack. I was a melee character and I couldn't do anything at all against it.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #32

I also don't agree with the thought that Wizards are totally useless if they run out of spells. They can do ranged or melee combat, slide to knock pucks into better position, etc. Our wizard's combat stats are good enough that they stand a decent chance of hitting in melee, and we're far from maximized on tokens.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #33

  • balthasar
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Brad Mortensen wrote:
Here's an analogy. Like all such things, it's flawed:

I fascetiously propose we add a new thing called "endurance."

You start with 25 endurance. (Level 5s get 30). Every physical attack cost one endurance, and there's no way to regain it. Once you're out, you are so exhausted that your hit/damage bonuses are reduced to 0/0, and you can no longer hear the bard song, so you can still hit but only on a 20 for base weapon damage. However, you may muster the energy to attack as normal for one round by sacrificing a token. Commons give you +1/+1, greens give you half your bonuses, and reds give you full.

Would that change the way you play a Fighter? Sure it would. You'd have to play it like a wizard.

I think that's the issue that some wizards are trying to address.

I would argue that, even on NM, a Fighter won't need 25 attack slides. How many combats have you been in that take more than 6 rounds? A Combat dungeon only has 4 combats, so at level 5 you would get 7 rounds per combat, with two extras for the boss.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #34

Melee wizards are easier to do at normal.

At nightmare, much less so. Wizards can of course raise their STR some, but at the expense of saves, AC, and casting bonuses. +10 hit is useless against a boss like Undead Cow Demon with 30 AC.

When I kit out my Cleric for defense and max healing, my +6 won't hit anything on Nightmare. So I have to be a more fragile, less effective spellcaster in order to be passable at melee. I imagine wizards are much the same, but they're even more fragile than a cleric in platemail.

Different classes need to be different. Forcing wizards to be inferior backup melee fighters when they should be able to just focus on casting doesn't help that.

Maybe wizards could just sit out a round or two of each of the early fights to be sure to have spells in room 7, but that's boring. They pay as much for a ticket as everyone else.

I don't play wizards. I was just trying to repeat what I think I hear other wizards saying, because it feels like everyone is missing the point. Finding ways to let them spend real money to stay in the fight isn't what I would be looking for.

But maybe I misunderstand their concern.
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #35

  • balthasar
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I am pretty sure you could throw healing potions into the pool in front of that cow to do damage :)
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2016 Character Card FINAL IMAGES 4 years 1 month ago #36

  • Ro-gan
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I have no idea why so many are complaining about the Wizards being ineffectual in melee and when out of spells.

I've played both wizards in Hardcore and NM many times in the past. Never once did I run out of spells or have a problem in melee. My wizard classes are fairly balanced between spell use and melee. And, never once did I ever feel useless in the Rooms. Whether combat or puzzle.

If you spell casters out there are running out of spells before finishing a Run then don't blame the wizard's character card. Blame the other Party members. Seriously. If the Party is relying on the spell lobbers to finish the monsters then they aren't pulling their weight in combat slides. That's not a wizard spell use issue, that's an inept Party issue.

The wizard classes look perfect to me. They are perfectly balanced with the rest of the characters. Especially since the Saves and DC checks have been all but done away with. I never did like them because ever since the most recent power creeps the past couple years the Monsters could save when even rolling a "2."
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