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TOPIC: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014?

End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #1

  • Jeff Martin
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The growth of TD and Gen Con Indy has been amazing. I'm actually a bit worried about the availability of tickets for token collectors and volunteers in 2014.

A few times over the past 11 year, we have run into BIG issues with volunteers who had their schedules before event reg, but they were not able to find TD tickets around their provided schedule. This has caused MAJOR scheduling issues, and this was when we only had two dungeons. I shutter to think what could happen this year. It could actually be a huge problem to overcome and manage at the event.

In 2013 we raised the price by $6 and added 2,000 tickets. We STILL came close to selling out in 2013. I don't want to raise prices again in 2014, and the only way to get more tickets available is to go to 10-minute rooms (This would add 1,600 tickets).

There are a few other things we do to slightly encourage players to do multiple runs (buttons, XP, Completion Tokens), and we could adjust these things to somewhat tamp down ticket demand in 2014.

It seems the best alternative is to drop the "two-variations" of each adventure idea. We could just offer two exact copies of each of the two adventures. My current beta plan is to do just that in 2014. We will still offer some variety, as both modules in 2014 will feature event "adjustment" mechanics in the later rooms. For instance, if you free an invisible stalker in Room 2, that Invisible Stalker might follow you and attack your group in Room 7 when you are also fighting an Iron Golem (or it might fight with you). This "adjustment mechanics" feature would not be publicized except here on the TD Forums and to token collector newsletters.

Any thoughts on the above concerns? Doing the 2014 volunteer schedule will be an incredible task, and it will be insanely difficult to manage volunteer schedule changes if TD tickets are difficult to obtain on that first day of event reg. We came VERY close to that in 2013, and I think we are going to have a massive problem in 2014 if we don't address it.

Any ideas or feedback would be appreciated?
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #2

  • jedibcg
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I would give up having differently types of run if there was the possibility of having choices made affect runs differently. Sounds interesting. I don't know that it would cut back on ticket sales for those of us that do multiple runs. I think most of that do multiple runs because we like seeing everything and we like doing TD. Ending combat and puzzle might not cut back on those desires. Knowing there are different possibilities might mean folks buy more tickets to experience those different possibilities again I don't know just speculation.

I know for myself that I might want to see the different possibilities depending on what they were and still buy enough tickets to be able to do so.
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Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by jedibcg.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #3

  • balthasar
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Only concern I would have is the proposed recipe for the Ring of Heroism needing two different completion tokens from each year. It sounds like we would have access to only 2 different ones under the new proposal, as opposed to the 4 different tokens in the past. (not counting the TG token)
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #4

  • bpsymington
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Dropping the combat/puzzle distinction would be okay, IMHO. We still would have the variation between the two different dungeons, it would open up more ticket slots, it would be easier to set up and run the dungeons from an administrative viewpoint.

The main drawback would be the reduced number of awesome rooms to experience, but the benefits might outweigh the drawbacks.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #5

  • Raven
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ian ferguson wrote:
Only concern I would have is the proposed recipe for the Ring of Heroism needing two different completion tokens from each year. It sounds like we would have access to only 2 different ones under the new proposal, as opposed to the 4 different tokens in the past. (not counting the TG token)

As far as I know, those plans would remain intact.

There would still be 2 different dungeon paths (this year the Airship, and the Desert) and those adventures would both have 2 completion tokens (normal and hardcore)

What would drop is the COMBAT Airship/PUZZLE Airship and COMBAT Desert/PUZZLE Desert distinction.

Jeff: I understand how crazy it is trying to schedule things. As much as I love being able to see the variant dungeons, I agree that removing them would make it more flexible for people trying to get tickets. Plus, I'd much rather lose the combat/puzzle distinction that lose some of the other perks you mentioned, like XP or completion tokens.
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Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Raven.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #6

  • Garrison
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The combat/puzzle ratio of each dungeon would have to be very carefully balanced if there was only one essential version. I find myself during combat runs thinking "this is just a tad too many combats" and during puzzle runs thinking "another puzzle? um, okay...". By doing one of each run, it somewhat balances out.

That said, I wouldn't throw a fit if it was simplified into a single version. The whole "alternate" aspect of it may not be enough for me to attempt another run, personally. But I guess that's the idea.

One option: Have one of the adventures essentially be the "combat-centric" adventure, while the other part of the story can be the "puzzle-heavy" one, rather than trying to make both adventures balance each aspect. Dunno. Just an idea.

Rewards are cool (completion tokens, yay!), but personally the completion badges/pins don't do much for me. I realize some people like them, and they do double-duty as an easy advertising method for TD as people walk around GenCon wearing their buttons. But I keep feeling that the time, energy, and funds which go into the buttons could be better spent elsewhere. And at this point, one of the last things True Dungeon needs is advertising! :P

One request: If you have only one version of each adventure, have at least one of the dungeons have an "alternate" room part way through! :D I think I've expounded on this idea verbosely in other parts of the forum...:blush:
Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Garrison.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #7

  • Harlax
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I strongly prefer combat to puzzle. I imagine there are folk who strongly prefer puzzle.

Could we have a dungeon with different paths. Just as we now choose difficulty in the coaching room, could we choose puzzle vs combat in the coaching room?

Edit: Ninja'd!

Maybe some special slots for volunteers and 1k plus buyers?
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Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Harlax.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #8

I think it is a good idea. You would still keep the experience points possible the same, and the completion tokens could be kept as normal.

I do think TD tickets will sell out very quickly with the added attendance. Eliminating a puzzle/combat option MAY cut down on the number of runs some people may do and would cut down on your expense.

I realize the scheduling is a "nightmare" (pun intended). Special slots for large buyers and/or volunteers may help so also.

Larry
Last Edit: 6 years 3 months ago by Larry Anthony. Reason: more to add.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #9

  • Raven
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Garrison wrote:
One option: Have one of the adventures essentially be the "combat-centric" adventure, while the other part of the story can be the "puzzle-heavy" one, rather than trying to make both adventures balance each aspect. Dunno. Just an idea.

I would advise against this! It's a cool idea, but it would cause one entire dungeon to sell out faster than the other dungeon, meaning those players who want to experience both adventures would have and even /harder/ time getting their runs scheduled.


One way I could see making allowances for people who prefer combat over puzzle (or vice versa) would be to include more rooms which offer a choice of both. Rooms like last year's Will-o-the-Wisp room which was a combat only if you didn't solve the "puzzle" (don't touch that standing stone, it's a trap!" or the encounter in 2006 where pulling a blanket/bearskin across a source of light could instantly defeat the shadow-creature (by removing the shadow).

There was also a room a couple years ago where players were given an actual choice of "Puzzle vs Combat" for the end room and the DM directed them into a different doorway depending on their answer. Unfortunately, with space at a premium, this might not be a viable option.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #10

  • cdsmith
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Harlax wrote:

Maybe some special slots for volunteers and 1k plus buyers?

I would certainly be on board with special slots for larger token buyers and volunteers. If it would be at all possible to have one full slot available at checkout if you purchase a certain amount of tokens would be great.

As a non-volunteer I would also be very happy if some slots were reserved JUST for volunteers. They work very hard to provide this experience for us and I believe such a perk is deserved.

On the combat/puzzle runs, changing them would not diminish my number of runs in the least. While I like the differences between the two types of dungeons, I go on TD runs to be with my friends. We have a great time and that wouldn't change even if I did the same dungeon twice. Did a few twice last year and it was the group that made the event fun. It was really nice to see the different ways each group approached each room.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #11

  • Disbeeleaf
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We have no special love for the combat vs. puzzle variations, so no loss there. I think predicability in TD is a negative anyway. The more uncertainty there is within reason, the better.

I think the issue you want to overcome is the multiple ticket purchases by veteran players.

I think you were on the right track earlier in the year with an extra dungeon for Adventurer Guild holders. If you can swing the space and support, offer three dungeons, each unique and different from the others. Two would be the standard two dungeons that are offered each year. Offer one completion token for each. The third dungeon would be only for Adventurer Guild members, who just happen to be veteran players who buy lots of tickets. Offer both of the completion tokens in the AG dungeon. Charge more for the AG dungeon, allow more time in the rooms, include interactive multi room NPCs, make it a serious dungeon that will take our breath away with clever brilliance.

Also, expand True Grind so an extended time schedule is offered. That way it will absorb veterans for longer. It only takes up one room but it does require an experienced DM.

As TD expands, the challenge will be to keep the veterans happy and attract new players at the same time. Each group requires a different kind of encouragement. No one said it would be simple, but it is certainly doable.

The other thing you need to do is keep the software working like a charm so no one ever has reason to doubt it. As it is, no one has confidence in the records.
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Re: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014? 6 years 3 months ago #12

I'd be fine with no distinction being made for combat and puzzle variations. I only do each adventure once as it is, so the extra split only meant that there were a couple of rooms I didn't see last year.
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